Update on Smashbox and Aveda and Grey Area Brands
I struggled for a long while on whether or not to write this post. I wanted to share an update on Smashbox and Aveda. Both brands are owned by Estee Lauder, who has a blanket “except where required by law” for all of their brands. I’ve been contacted by both brands in the past and both have claimed to be cruelty free.
Update on Smashbox and Aveda and Grey Area Brands
Smashbox says
We do not conduct animal testing on our products or ingredients, nor ask others to test on our behalf, except when required by law. We evaluate our finished products in clinical tests on volunteer panels.
Aveda says
Aveda does not conduct animal testing, nor ask others to do it on its behalf, except when it is required by law.
Now my personal belief when it comes to cruelty free is that a brand is cruelty free if
- they are not currently testing on animals, not asking others to test on animals and their ingredients are not tested on animals
- they are not selling in Mainland China (Hong Kong is exempt)
After reaching out to Paula’s Choice, who spent time researching whether or not Aveda and Smashbox were being sold in China, they determined that both brands are not being sold in China, not testing on animals, and not asking others to test on animals.
This leaves me in the position of having to re-examine my feelings on ‘except where required by law.’ I’ve received many emails and comments from readers who feel that me writing off brands that say ‘except where required by law’ is me being too strict with what I consider cruelty free (and just as many who say that supporting companies who have non-cruelty free parent companies is awful). After putting a lot of thought into it, I feel like, if there is sufficient proof that a brand – even if it has that blanket statement – is not testing on animals in any way and not selling in China, then I should consider the brand cruelty free.
I really wish that cruelty free was a black or white issue, but it is not. There are so many nuances and shades of grey to it. Some people don’t consider a company like Urban Decay cruelty free, even though they’re Leaping Bunny Certified, because they’re owned by L’Oreal. I personally think that’s ridiculous, because Urban Decay goes that extra mile to reassure consumers that they are cruelty free, as are their suppliers. So for me, to not support cruelty free brands when their parent companies are cruelty free… that would be like saying you can’t buy a cruelty free brand from Sephora because part of that money goes to support Sephora. I feel you do more good buying the cruelty free brand and showing that cruelty free is a viable financial model, than by entirely boycotting Sephora.
The only thing that is black or white about this issue to me is that I don’t want companies testing on animals.
And since many of you have asked recently about the changes in the laws in China and if that means MAC and Make Up For Ever are cruelty free again, the answer is no. The laws (which you can read about at Logical Harmony and My Beauty Bunny) are only for domestic cosmetics, not foreign companies like MAC or Make Up For Ever. So if you see me using MAC or MUFE or any other non cruelty free brand, it’s from my stash from before I went cruelty free, and in the case of MAC when they were still cruelty free. They’re not currently cruelty free. I hope that they will be again some day.
About Grey Area Brands
There are several brands that I’ve spoken to who say that they don’t test, but they can’t guarantee their suppliers. It’s kind of weird.
An example would be Lorac
From Lorac – Thank you for contacting LORAC Cosmetics. LORAC does not support the testing of products on animals and we ask all suppliers to support this point of view and all suppliers state that they do so. LORAC does not use a third party to test on animals. LORAC does not sell in countries requiring animal testing. Please note, LORAC cannot warrant or certify that all suppliers who say they do not test on animals in fact do not test on animals. Additionally, notwithstanding the statements of suppliers to LORAC, LORAC has no way of knowing what the “suppliers of the suppliers” are doing. In regards to the vegan ingredients there is no way to know for sure due to the lack of control over raw ingredients.
Skindinavia says something similar to Lorac
From Skindinavia – I wanted to take a moment to write you about animal testing at Skindinavia. It is something I hold near to my heart as we love animals- most of us have adopted pets and believe firmly that the beauty industry has better ways to test product safety than using animals. Of course, I can only speak for our brand. We do not test on animals, nor condone it. We do not sell directly to China. We are not aware of any of our suppliers or affiliates who do any animal testing and do follow up on the issue. However, it would be nearly impossible for any brand to “guarantee” it. Most brands sell all over the world and just can’t be present absolutely everywhere, so as much as we may try in earnest, it is impossible to absolutely guarantee that no “supplier of a supplier” or an “affiliate of an affiliate” in some faraway land doesn’t. I hope that makes sense as I believe deeply in this cause. As an industry, we need to continue to continue to educate that there are better ways to test product safety than on animals because there are.
Basically Skindinavia says that they’re cruelty free and they’re not aware of their products being sold in China, but they can’t guarantee what suppliers of suppliers may be doing. I have asked them repeatedly about the Skin Store China and they have ignored my questions.
From researching, I feel like that ‘we can’t guarantee what suppliers of suppliers are doing’ is lawyer-speak. I.e. the company must cover themselves in case of emergency. So even if the company says they’re cruelty free and that they’re only working with suppliers that are cruelty free, they worry about what suppliers of suppliers may do since they don’t work directly with them.
So to me, Lorac and Skindinavia may be cruelty free, but they’re covering their butts with their lawyer-speak.
The brands that are currently grey area to me are Dermablend, Laura Mercier, Lorac, Skindinavia, Tigi / Bedhead, and Milani / Jordana.
Milani / Jordana is an interesting case because they have been cruelty free for years, but because of an issue with an employee that said that they were testing, and then they said it was a mistake, it’s made me hesitant to trust them. (see my June update). Milani told me that they received PETA certification and they were working on Leaping Bunny Certification. I reached out to my contact at Leaping Bunny who said that they had not seen Milani start the paperwork for that. I asked Milani about that and Milani said they were getting ready to. As far as I’m aware, Milani has still not started Leaping Bunny certification.
Another interesting point about Milani that I had not considered is that they are sold at by CherryCulture.com and CrushCosmetics.com. I just found out that both of these places ship to mainland China, but I don’t know if any specific product lines are restricted from shipping.
At the end of the day, I trust Leaping Bunny more than any other organization when it comes to telling me if a company is really cruelty free. I know that I can buy with 100% confidence from a brand that has LB certification. So many great brands are LB Certified including Urban Decay, Paula’s Choice, A Girl’s Gotta Spa!, the All Natural Face, Face Atelier, Bite Beauty, Burt’s Bees, Gud from Burt’s Bees, Jane Iredale, Martha Stewart, Method, Mineral Fusion, Paul Mitchell, Ofra Cosmetics, Seventh Generation, Spa Ritual, The Body Shop, Zenmed and 100% Pure. Of course there are many more, too! It is my hope that many more of my favorite brands will seek Leaping Bunny Certification. The process time only takes between 1 to 2 weeks once the paperwork is filled out.
Yes, there are many great brands that I support that I believe wholeheartedly are cruelty free and are not Leaping Bunny Certified – Sugarpill, Fyrinnae, Silk Naturals, Cover FX and Notoriously Morbid, just to name a few, but I still wish that more brands would get on board with Leaping Bunny.
As always, I encourage you to reach out to brands directly to see what they say. You can also reach out to Paula’s Choice, Leaping Bunny, PETA, NAVS, myself, Logical Harmony and My Beauty Bunny to see what we think about brands.
I know that this is a highly emotional subject for people (especially for me!) but I wanted to share with you the sort of facts that I look for when making my decisions on whether or not I will support a company. You have to do what you feel is right for you. I’m doing what I feel is right for me. I am guessing that this will be a very controversial post. I know that my opinion on this matter is not a very popular one.
I welcome respectful discussion on this topic.
Remember, what I think we all want is to see is the end of animal testing for cosmetics.
I really enjoyed this article and all the subsequent comments. Everyone here is very smart with excellent critical minds. I fully agree that these are all personal choices we make. I almost enjoy buying cf from parent companies that are not. I want them to track the incremental rise in their sales in that area. I want them to see the evolution of the make up industry, and the intelligence and compassion of their consumers. Recently, McDonald’s announced plans to go free range with their eggs and slowly transitioning to ethical farming and slaughter of animals (which is something I strongly believe in that many may feel is hypocritical). The reason McDonald’s did all of this is because they were pressured by consumers who wanted and demanded this change. Quite frankly, up until recently they had refused to make any changes whatsoever. When they began this process I made a conscious decision to end my boycott and go to McDonald’s again. I want to reward all the strides these companies make and I want them to see real dollar bills in the hands of people who will no longer support torture and cruelty of other beings. So for me, it’s well thought out to buy c.f. products from non cf parent companies. And I think it will pay off in the long run. Smashbox and nudestix make me uncomfortable and I haven’t made a decision about them yet. Thanks for the really well thought out article and all the lovely people who contributed in the replies. A true pleasure to see others like me in the world… I feel very alone and “radical” sometimes. Peace
The reason I don’t feel comfortable buying Urban Decay is because your money goes to thei parent company. If their parent company is testing, you are supporting that inadvertently. That seems common sense to me. But maybe I’m wrong? I don’t know how the business side of cosmetics are. However, I can guarantee that Loreal is getting money from owning Urban Decay. I can’t support that, regardless how Urban Decay is. They don’t have a very good track record for being honest and transparent, that’s for sure. And if you think for 2 seconds that Loreal cares about people buying from companies they own because they are CF? Yeah right. Lots of grey areas., but I refuse to support the black areas.
Thank you for this post – I didn’t realise Hong Kong was exempt. I have very little money so the thought of any of it going to L’Oreal makes me annoyed, I think this is why I support the smaller independent companies but as you say, buying a companies cruelty free brand does encourage them to realise it’s a viable option…Unless they have simply realised they can profit from the niche CF market. Each to their own however and I’d never look down on someone for having a different opinion on this subject :o) It’s weird the ‘When required by law’ if they don’t sell to countries who require it by law, whaat!? I think I will add Aveda back onto my CF list though. Peace.
I agree with you guys that we should be standing together, and not picking fights with each other over our choices. Personally I would prefer people to eat meat and not use non CF products.
Even though I am vegetarian, many people feel consumption of meat is very important, but I don’t think anyone could stress that testing mascara on bunnies is! (Pharmaceuticals is a whole other barrel of fish!)
I don’t use brands like Urban Decay, they are my “grey area”. i know the product is cruelty free, but I can’t bring myself to use anything that is owned by a bad parent company. None of their profits will come from me! It’s everything though, toothpaste, cleaning products, perfumes, foodstuffs (mars, nestle).
I prefer to stick to companies like Too Faced, TheBalm and Illamasqua, I find new brands everyday that I would prefer to spend my money on.
Great post! Thanks for keeping us informed; you are a huge resource for me!
Great post, Courtney. When I decided to go CF just over a year ago now I thought it would be easy, black and white as you say. I soon found out about all the shades of grey involved, from ingredient testing, where products are sold, to the “where required by law” statement.
I think anyone who wants to go CF has to make their own decisions about where to draw the lines, and to give people who don’t draw the same lines as you a hard time is pointless. I’m not vegan or even vegetarian, I wear (some but not many) leather shoes but I won’t buy leather clothes. I buy UD but not MAC, Body Shop but not Clinique, because I believe that supporting a CF brand even if it is owned – or sold as you give in the Sephora example – by a non-CF brand it is still sending a message of some sort. And it is about conscience too – I am not happy to use what I consider to be a vanity product for which animals have suffered. Yes I want to look my best but not at the expense of animals. I also buy some real hair makeup brushes, although I try to buy synthetic. Brushes such as the ones by Wayne Goss – they claim to be cruelty free but really, if an animal is being used in industry is that truly possible? But I own a set of the eye brushes and they are beautiful and in my mind it’s probably no worse than wearing leather shoes.
I worked in an animal welfare charity for almost six years and the thing that astounds me is the in-fighting between people who all ultimately care what happens to animals. My charity was about welfare, not rights, so it encouraged people to buy free range eggs, find out the source of their meat etc but it did not have a policy that people should not eat eggs and meat, or wear leather and so on. The animal rights organisations spent so much time and effort hammering at the charity I worked for (a well known one) about its position and criticised it for not saying that everyone should be vegan (as an example). I always felt that if these people could recognise their differences and celebrate their similarities it would have benefited animals a lot more than the waste of energy on fighting each other.
And that’s what I think when I get criticised for buying brands such as UD – I’m doing my bit in a way that I feel comfortable, I’m not out there buying MAC and Estee Lauder and all those other brands that are tested on animals. So let me do it my way and you do it yours and if you want to criticise anyone for their cosmetics purchases why don’t you concentrate on people who just buy any brand without thinking about the CF implications?
Just my ranty two cents worth for the day!
Thank you so much for your insightful comment! I agree with you 100%. It’s better to celebrate our similarities and stand together in them than to fight about the differences.
Most of my brushes are synthetic. The only brushes that are animal hair that I own are Wayne Goss, BECCA Cosmetics and MAC. All of which claim to be cruelty free. I’ve had it explained to me that they gather the hair humanely, but unless I take a trip to that facility to see it firsthand for myself, I don’t think there’s any way to know for sure :/
I definitely think that purchasing the cruelty free brand – whether from a place like Sephora, who does get a percentage of every sale (from my understanding), or directly from a cruelty free brand whose parent company is not cruelty free, does send a message “cruelty free matters.”
At the end of the day, I’m just one person. I can only do so much. I can’t fight for every cause, so I have to pick and choose which ones matter to me. Just like you or anyone else needs to choose what matters to them.
My best friend is vegan but half the time she ends up using non-cruelty free beauty products because her focus is more on food than on other items. It’s all in what is important to the individual.
You are exactly right about being just one person and only being able to do so much. My brother, years ago, was stressing to the point of absolute depression about climate change and all the people in the world who weren’t doing the right thing, etc etc. I told him that he had to focus on what HE can do, through his own actions and through influencing those directly around him.
I try to promote CF cosmetics through forums I post on and personal interactions – but not in an aggressive “you are really evil and you must hate animals if you buy MAC” sort of way, just through mentioning when I am talking about my purchases, offering CF products when people ask for suggestions and so on. As the old saying goes, you catch more bees with honey than with vinegar (or something like that).
The one thing I always feel like doing, but never do, is contacting celebrities who endorse non-CF brands or have lines with non-CF brands, like Rhianna, Sharon and Kelly Osborne and so on, and ask them if they are aware the brand is not CF and if they really want their image associated with a product that causes suffering to animals.
So do you buy grey area brands such as Aveda, Smashbox and Laura Mercier? I have bought Aveda and Laura Mercier but I’m never quite sure if I’m happy about it… And I have an urge to buy some Smashbox products but haven’t done so yet!
I have never purchased from Aveda. In the past I was told that Smashbox and Laura Mercier were cruelty free, so I had purchased from Smashbox (they had the PETA bunny on the packaging) and been sent press samples from Laura Mercier. I later found out that Laura Mercier was grey area to me so stopped supporting them.
I’ve now put Smashbox and Aveda into the ‘I guess they’re cruelty free as far as I can tell’ category, so I may purchase from them in the future.
I think that contacting celebrities is a great idea!
I think Rihanna is associated with Melt cosmetics, which is cruelty free and vegan?
I also don’t shame people who purchase non-CF items. I just don’t do it myself, and when people ask why don’t you own the X Y Z thing, I say, because it’s not cruelty free.
I was thinking of Rihanna in relation to MAC.
Sometimes deciding where my “line” is, is about thinking for a few minutes and setting a personal position. I will have to decide where those grey area brands fall in relation to my line.
Interestingly, PETA has Perricone as CF but Paula’s Choice says they test on animals – that is when I find it hard to decide where to put a brand.
I should NOT be posting all this stuff here – I’m in the middle of a uni assignment that I have to finish! I’m actually using this post as a source – the assignment is on doing research online and the credibility and so on, so the topic I’m researching, but doesn’t actually get discussed in the assignment, is finding which cosmetics are CF.
Oh right, I forgot she has done collaborations with MAC!
I trust Paula’s Choice over PETA, because Paula’s Choice works with NAVS. I know a lot of people don’t like Paula’s Choice because they have their own line of products but I really like how Paula’s Choice will back up their claims with scientific studies and link you to the information so you can make your own informed decision. I know from working with Paula’s Choice they truly care about animals so all of their products are cruelty free and they are Leaping Bunny certified.
I don’t know enough about Perricone to speak on the brand.
Good luck with your assignment 🙂 It’s definitely a complex issue.
Thanks 🙂 It’s my first assignment of my first subject in nearly 20 years so I’ll need all the good luck I can get I think!
I don’t really like Perricone products but it’s good to know why you value the information on one site over another. PETA is always a bit dubious to me, because they tend to be one of the animal rights organisations that does a bit of bashing of the organisation I used to work for. But their lists are extremely comprehensive!
I have a bias against PETA and don’t trust them because of how they have killed animals that they were supposed to be rescuing. I just find them hard to trust. I know objectively not everyone in the organization is like that, but I don’t want to be associated with them.
I find Humane Society International, Leaping Bunny, NAVS, Paula’s Choice, etc to be much better in my eyes.
I’m sure your assignment will be great 🙂
Yes I’ve heard that about PETA through my former animal welfare connections in Australia and the USA.
I’m vegetarian but I wear leather. The way I see it is billions of people eat meat and the left over wrappers (leather) are turned into coats or shoes. The cow (unfortunately) was always going to be killed for it’s meat and it’s hide is just a by-product. Unless some cows are specially bread just for their hides? In which case, bring on the pleather!
I quit buying leather when I saw videos of dogs being skinned alive in China. Where do a lot of your leather products come from? China. Who is to say that your leather isn’t a dog, that was skinned merely for its skin and not meat. Something to think about. All of your leather is not from the meat industry.
I never knew this sickening practise went on :o( Pleather it is then.
Wow, thank you so much for all of the updates!! It is not easy keeping up with the cruelty free status for all of these beauty brands. I like to buy products from completely CF brands but I also like to support brands like Urban Decay that are owned by larger non-cruelty free companies so those companies can see the market and consumer demand for cruelty free products. Both are very important in my opinion and every little bit counts for the animals. Thank you again for all that you do!
You’re welcome Jenny!
Thanks so much for posting, Courtney. I completely agree with purchasing from CF brands even if their parent companies are not CF. We have to support all CF brands!
feel wrong purchasing products from Aveda/Smashbox with that wording being out there, even if it’s a blanket statement for all Estee Lauder brands. Has Estee Lauder commented on why they need a blanket statement, even for their CF brands?
Please keep us posted on Laura Mercier!
As far as I know, Estee Lauder quietly changed all of their statements to include ‘except where required by law’ when they started selling MAC and everyone in China. I completely understand your viewpoint on Aveda / Smashbox and felt that way myself for quite a long time. No word from Estee Lauder as to why they have that specific statement for those brands.
The other interesting point that someone brought up to me is that ‘except where required by law’ doesn’t always mean China / Brazil. The REACH law can have an impact
http://www.eceae.org/en/what-we-do/campaigns/reach/the-truth-about-reach-animal-testing
I’m so glad you wrote this post. I’ve personally gotten some heat for posting replies on others’ blogs mentioning that I, like you, support CF brands even if their parent company tests. Like you said, everyone needs to decide what they consider CF for themselves and should respect each other’s decisions because it’s doubtful the definition of CF will ever be black and white. I sincerely thank you for putting all of your feelings out on the table for your readers, even though you didn’t have to. 🙂
You’re welcome Mel!
I am so happy with your post. I love that you freely explain your views and encourage others to consider their choices 🙂
Thank you,
Rebecca
I’m glad you like it Rebecca! And yes, I definitely feel people need to do what they feel is right for them.
excellent article. it’s such a tricky issue. i try to only buy vegan too…an added challenge. i am in love with Too Faced products; all CF and many, most are vegan and state so. also love CoverFX powders which have replaced my MAC go-to powders. the girl at Sephora told me MAC makes CoverFX which almost raised a red flag but i did my homework so feel confident CoverFX is ok. i’m just grateful that in today’s world, we have CHOICE. back in the 80’s when i first went veggie and became aware of animal rights, it was HARD. BWC was about my only choice. we’re spoiled today!
Hi! Actually Vic Casale (who I was able to meet a few months ago at a Cover FX event I hosted) used to work for MAC.He left MAC and is the creative genius at Cover FX. Their entire product line is vegan.
Thanks so much for sharing your insight. This is not a black and white issue for me, there are so many nuances of grey. I wish it were black and white!
Its so hard to keep up with it all, I try my hardest to only buy cruelty free and also use Leaping Bunny as my main source of info. Thanks for this post 🙂
You’re welcome Jackie!
Not totally on topic, but I wondered if you’d ever heard of or tried Gourmet Body Treats. It’s a vegan company out of Austin, TX that makes all sorts of body care and makeup products. They even have a subscription box. Their website says everything is 100% vegan and Leaping Bunny certified. I don’t work for them or anything, but my BFF loves their stuff and I just wanted to let you know about another company.
http://gourmetbodytreats.com
I haven’t heard of them, thanks for letting me know!
Courtney- I respect your choice but I do wonder: Why does Aveda and smashbox not simply take their “required by law” sentence out? It would make me much more comfortable! If they don’t test anywhere in the world it should be an easy task for them! I just saw that Laura Mercier changed their FAQ about animal testing and took the “required by law” out. Have you heard anything yet?
Hi Sissi, that is a blanket statement required by Estee Lauder for all of their brands. Aveda and Smashbox do not have control because they are owned by Estee Lauder.
I haven’t heard anything about Laura Mercier recently but I will look into it. Thanks!
I just checked the Laure Mercier FAQ and I see two answers: https://www.lauramercier.com/store/content/faq.jsp?itemCat=faq&faqTypeId=200004#q17 “We oppose animal testing and our products are not tested on animals
unless required by government regulations. We actively support
initiatives to create alternatives to required animal tests.”
and:
https://www.lauramercier.com/store/customer/?cs=0#faqs “We do not, nor have we ever, tested our products on animals. We also do not contract outside
companies to test on animals for us.”
So frustrating!
This is a really great post. I am with you re: buying from the larger LB certified companies or the smaller indie companies that I know are absolutely CF (ie. Fyrinnae and Silk Naturals). It just makes me feel that I can trust that nothing in the product has been tested on animals. As you’ve said, we all have to do what is feels right as individuals.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this touchy subject!
I think that the nature of contemporary manufacturing makes it all but impossible for most companies to make definitive guarantees about the sources of their ingredients. Only major industry leaders would even have the capacity to micro-manage their entire supply chain; most companies would have no choice but to use indirect means (supplier statements, reputation, etc.) to come to conclusions about their ingredients.
There may be a few companies that really can makes guarantees without stretching the limits of their actual capabilities, but I would argue that the vast majority of smaller companies (without big parent companies) would be lying if they tried to make such a claim without conditions. Indeed, even if a corporate lawyer suggested such language, I think it is more accurate. I honestly have a lot more respect for a company that is open about the limits of its abilities than one who makes guarantees based on facts they can’t actually confirm.
Thank you for sharing your insight on this issue.
Thanks for the info! I just went cruelty free about a year ago and navigating all of the information can be really overwhelming. I also use Leaping Bunny as a guide, as well as your blog!
So glad that I can help, Rebecca!
Great update. I know some areas can be grey. There is one blogger I follow that completely believes that Milani is fully CF from the posts Milani has put up, but also she WONT buy from a company that is CF, but the parent company is not. I try my hardest to only buy CF, but its hard when there are so many blurred lines. I would really like to know what these “unless required by law” laws are…
Off topic – Can I ask what your take is on Physician’s Formula? On their Organic Wear line, it says 100% cruelty free on the package. However, they have other, non-organic, lines, that don’t say that. On their website, and on PETA, it says the brand is CF, but I find it weird that some packaging says it, and others don’t. I have personally taken that as everything is CF, but I wanted to know your opinion 🙂
100%, not $ hehe!
From my understanding and research Physicians Formula is cruelty free. I’ve used their products in the past. I don’t think i’ve used anything by them since their cute little heart blush.